2020 NFL Offseason

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IBleedBlackNGold

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Still 1st in the AFC East until proven wrong. We still have Bill B. Winning records with every QB not name Tom under center for the Patriots.
11-5 with Matt Cassel as the starter in 2008 and amazingly didn't make the playoffs. I think the Patriots will take a step back but still go 10-6
 

Bren1117

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11-5 with Matt Cassel as the starter in 2008 and amazingly didn't make the playoffs. I think the Patriots will take a step back but still go 10-6
With Stidham, Edelman, and Sanu playing QBBC?

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jalexjsmithj

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Last year you were saying what a shame it was that Pittsburgh had Mason Rudolph on the bench during his rookie year and now you're calling him failed after 8 starts. He went 5-3. Duck went 3-3. Pittsburgh is very patient, they will probably give these guys at least another year UNLESS they get an excellent bargain at either 52 or 104, but even then I doubt it. Notice we traded our 2020 1st round pick for Minkah. That was right after Ben got injured. So they focused on improving the defense because they are all in on Ben's last 2 seasons. Trying to create as big of a legacy of his tenure as possible for decades to come. Hell they've been marketing the success of the 1970s for over 40 years now! I highly doubt we take a QB in the first 2 days of the draft and probably at all. We have 5 QBs on the roster right now
And then he was bad. Irreparably bad. Patience is one thing, just not having it is another. And I’m not clowning Pitt, the team is good, but they won what they won in spite of QB play all year. It doesn’t matter that there’s 5 QBs roster when 4 of them are replacement level and the main guy is facing a crazy high probability of decline, sign a guy who can bring some higher level play.


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IBleedBlackNGold

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And then he was bad. Irreparably bad. Patience is one thing, just not having it is another. And I’m not clowning Pitt, the team is good, but they won what they won in spite of QB play all year. It doesn’t matter that there’s 5 QBs roster when 4 of them are replacement level and the main guy is facing a crazy high probability of decline, sign a guy who can bring some higher level play.


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I'm right about my Steelers predictions in regards to general personnel moves more often than not, and right or wrong they aren't going to do as you are advising unless the value is too good to pass up. Rudolph is not a conclusive failure yet, it was his first year getting any game action. Fans many times are too impatient but the Steelers' FO is not. Now if he sucks again next year they will look elsewhere but right now they are still giving him a chance. Personally I like some things about him but think he has a weak chin. As of now I definitely do not feel comfortable with him as a QBOTF. I am completely furious that we passed on Lamar Jackson at 28th overall in 2018. We'll draft the 3rd rated QB in next year's draft, whoever that is. Right now it's Jamie Newman and Kellen Mond but I think a dark horse will emerge
 

jalexjsmithj

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I'm right about my Steelers predictions in regards to general personnel moves more often than not, and right or wrong they aren't going to do as you are advising unless the value is too good to pass up. Rudolph is not a conclusive failure yet, it was his first year getting any game action. Fans many times are too impatient but the Steelers' FO is not. Now if he sucks again next year they will look elsewhere but right now they are still giving him a chance. Personally I like some things about him but think he has a weak chin. As of now I definitely do not feel comfortable with him as a QBOTF. I am completely furious that we passed on Lamar Jackson at 28th overall in 2018. We'll draft the 3rd rated QB in next year's draft, whoever that is. Right now it's Jamie Newman and Kellen Mond but I think a dark horse will emerge
You’re really unnecessarily pushing yourself into your point...


Just because they choose not to do it, that doesn’t make their decision right. What’s the downside of putting Jameis on the bench? The opportunity cost of Mason’s development? That’s not much of a cost and Jameis has shown that he can definitely win you a game if you need him too.


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IBleedBlackNGold

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You’re really unnecessarily pushing yourself into your point...


Just because they choose not to do it, that doesn’t make their decision right. What’s the downside of putting Jameis on the bench? The opportunity cost of Mason’s development? That’s not much of a cost and Jameis has shown that he can definitely win you a game if you need him too.


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The Steelers have won six Super Bowls, including two in the past 15 seasons. They are also tied for the second highest number of wins over the last decade with the Packers, behind only the Patriots. The Steelers know their business well and I know their tendencies well. Most of the decisions they make are right. We generally develop our own drafted players. They aren't signing Jameis. They throw their unproven players into the fire to see what they are made of. They see if they sink or swim and they give them a long enough leash, usually over at least two seasons. They have a winning formula. There's a 90% chance that Mason is our QB2 this upcoming season and personally I'm ok with that. Hopefully Mason doesn't have to play in 2020, but if he does, he'll almost definitely be noticeably better than he was in 2019 and his stats would reflect that, because the Steelers know how to develop their players. We'll draft our QBOTF in the 2021 Draft.
 
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jalexjsmithj

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The Steelers have won six Super Bowls, including two in the past 15 seasons. They also tied for the second highest number of wins over the last decade with the Packers, behind only the Patriots. The Steelers know their business well and I know their tendencies well. Most of the decisions they make are right. We generally develop our own drafted players. They aren't signing Jameis. They throw their unproven players into the fire to see what they are made of. They see if they sink or swim AND they give them a long enough leash, usually over at least two seasons. They have a winning formula. There's a 90% chance that Mason is our QB2 this upcoming season and personally I'm ok with that. Hopefully Mason doesn't have to play in 2020, but if he does, he'll almost definitely be noticeably better than he was in 2019 and his stats would reflect that, because the Steelers know how to develop their players. We'll draft our QBOTF in the 2021 Draft.
Alright while you keep reciting the company line and recycling overused cliches, I’ll try to actually actually attack the idea behind your argument. Your team has not developed a QB in 16 years. In fact, considering how good Roethlisberger was early on (66% completion, very positive TD to Int ratio in an era where that was way harder for rookies, and a 15-1 regular season before winning the SB) and the fact that the truly elite part of his game has always been the improvising and magic on broken plays, I’d argue the staff didn’t develop Ben at all, you just picked a legendary player.

So, your GM has been with the team for 20 years so since that time he has no experience building around any other QB except Ben. Your HC background is entirely DBs, he’s got little to no experience developing QBs at any level. Your offensive coordinator has spent essentially his entire career with the Steelers and he’s never successfully never developed a young QB at the highest level. Matt Canada’s the only guy who’s got some actual experience with what it’s like to with guys who are not Ben Roethlisberger. So since QB is a totally unique beast, your organization is essentially bare of any recent experience of creating a good young QB.

Going to attack the idea that I should hold Roethlisberger’s long term career against the organization? During Ben Roethlisberger’s career the Patriots have essentially created, developed, and got value for Cassel, Hoyer, Mallet, Brisset, and of Jimmy G, while the Steelers rotated through career journeyman as back ups. This proves QBs can be groomed and flash while behind unquestioned starters. Yet that never happened in Pittsburgh, so I see nothing in the Pittsburg resume that says they are good at improving and grooming young QBs. Seriously, only one regime in this league deserves the benefit of the doubt over anybody’s own critical thinking, and that’s New England.

Here’s the reality, the Steelers have maybe the best Oline in the league, a very good receiving corps, a good run game, they turned their biggest weakness into their largest strength by picking TJ Watt, their Dline is talented and well paid, they are extremely deep at corner, and they have maybe the best moveable chess pieces in the league at the hybrid positions that help cover up anything the corners can’t handle. It’s pretty clearly battling San Fran for title of the the next roster in the league. And yet with the best roster in the league you went 8-8. You should be trying to find the QB that maximizes your opportunity to win now because this doesn’t happen very often.The aggression should be there because you really cannot count on Ben’s health. We have never seen a QB that old miss a year and return to playing well. He’s 2 years older than Peyton then when he did it, and he’s way more dependent on his physical gifts than Peyton was. It’s highly likely that a QB will be needed this year.

And Jamies plays like Ben. He’s not as good, and he’s even more volatile, but stylistically they are so similar. Jamies is already familiar with the Arians offense which has its Pittsburg ties. He’s a natural stop gap for Ben. It would connect better with the rest of the offense to throw someone in who mirrors what the starter does because it keeps the continuity. And even if you sign him, there is no reason you can’t still draft a new QB in 2021 (not that either of the guys you just mentioned are good). It’s honestly a really well made match.

But honestly dude, I’m not sure if I should of written out this big message with actual points because your opinion is just whatever the team does is good. If they actually did sign Jameis you would 100% pull a complete uturn. You’d be parroting everything I just said about the fit with some added bs like “well they interviewed him, and he’s all in on the culture, and if they think he’s all in on the culture, then they know what they’re talking about!”



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IBleedBlackNGold

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Alright while you keep reciting the company line and recycling overused cliches, I’ll try to actually actually attack the idea behind your argument. Your team has not developed a QB in 16 years. In fact, considering how good Roethlisberger was early on (66% completion, very positive TD to Int ratio in an era where that was way harder for rookies, and a 15-1 regular season before winning the SB) and the fact that the truly elite part of his game has always been the improvising and magic on broken plays, I’d argue the staff didn’t develop Ben at all, you just picked a legendary player.

So, your GM has been with the team for 20 years so since that time he has no experience building around any other QB except Ben. Your HC background is entirely DBs, he’s got little to no experience developing QBs at any level. Your offensive coordinator has spent essentially his entire career with the Steelers and he’s never successfully never developed a young QB at the highest level. Matt Canada’s the only guy who’s got some actual experience with what it’s like to with guys who are not Ben Roethlisberger. So since QB is a totally unique beast, your organization is essentially bare of any recent experience of creating a good young QB.

Going to attack the idea that I should hold Roethlisberger’s long term career against the organization? During Ben Roethlisberger’s career the Patriots have essentially created, developed, and got value for Cassel, Hoyer, Mallet, Brisset, and of Jimmy G, while the Steelers rotated through career journeyman as back ups. This proves QBs can be groomed and flash while behind unquestioned starters. Yet that never happened in Pittsburgh, so I see nothing in the Pittsburg resume that says they are good at improving and grooming young QBs. Seriously, only one regime in this league deserves the benefit of the doubt over anybody’s own critical thinking, and that’s New England.

Here’s the reality, the Steelers have maybe the best Oline in the league, a very good receiving corps, a good run game, they turned their biggest weakness into their largest strength by picking TJ Watt, their Dline is talented and well paid, they are extremely deep at corner, and they have maybe the best moveable chess pieces in the league at the hybrid positions that help cover up anything the corners can’t handle. It’s pretty clearly battling San Fran for title of the the next roster in the league. And yet with the best roster in the league you went 8-8. You should be trying to find the QB that maximizes your opportunity to win now because this doesn’t happen very often.The aggression should be there because you really cannot count on Ben’s health. We have never seen a QB that old miss a year and return to playing well. He’s 2 years older than Peyton then when he did it, and he’s way more dependent on his physical gifts than Peyton was. It’s highly likely that a QB will be needed this year.

And Jamies plays like Ben. He’s not as good, and he’s even more volatile, but stylistically they are so similar. Jamies is already familiar with the Arians offense which has its Pittsburg ties. He’s a natural stop gap for Ben. It would connect better with the rest of the offense to throw someone in who mirrors what the starter does because it keeps the continuity. And even if you sign him, there is no reason you can’t still draft a new QB in 2021 (not that either of the guys you just mentioned are good). It’s honestly a really well made match.

But honestly dude, I’m not sure if I should of written out this big message with actual points because your opinion is just whatever the team does is good. If they actually did sign Jameis you would 100% pull a complete uturn. You’d be parroting everything I just said about the fit with some added bs like “well they interviewed him, and he’s all in on the culture, and if they think he’s all in on the culture, then they know what they’re talking about!”



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You made a lot of excellent points here. I'm impressed. But if you think my opinions are their opinions and that I don't think for myself based on my own obsrvations...hell no. I am my own thinker. With the Steelers I have gradually come to realize what they do and how most of the time they are right. To your point it is true we develop other positions better than QB, the most obvious being WR, however I would argue that we developed Landry Jones from the viewpoint of our own system. He got a lot better from year to year during his 5 years here. He was a late 4th rounder, never intended to be anything other than a backup. The Patriots did what they did with a 2nd rounder (Jimmy G). They didn't develop 4th round guys or later other than Matt Cassell and Brian Hoyer. I would argue Mallett wasn't a success. But either way I totally agree they develop QBs way better than we do. I'm not opposed to signing Jameis (depending on cost), I just don't see it happening.
 
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