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  #261  
Old 06-12-2017, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by IBleedBlackNGold View Post
I agree about Hornqvist/Hagelin and Cullen's D game. Ok about Sprong but if he's not even a line 3 or 4 Winger for us in the playoffs jumping up to the 1st or 2nd line seems is quite a jump. Not impossible though.
Eh, even without Sprong, say he spends half a season in the AHL like Guentzel did, the wings are still loaded. I mean, you can take the cup lines:

Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary
Wilson-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-??-Hornqvist
Rowney-??-Rust

And still be set at the wings.

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I agree that Pens are all about family but they are not stupid. I really don't think they will give Kunitz $3.5 million. They paid Cullen $1 million this past season and he had more points than Kunitz. They might give him more than $2 mil but I would be pissed if they give him $3.5.
Well, they have made boneheaded decisions before... Cullen was a new contract though, Kunitz was at the end of his. But it does set a good precedent I think. It could be anywhere from 1,000,000 to 4,000,000 (likely close to the former). It's hard to say.

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You're right that Shattenkirk is name but he had by far the most points of any available UFA defenseman (56) with most of them coming with StL (not an elite team) and he's only 28. Based on that he is worth $6 - $7 mil per year and I think he'll get closer to the 7. I know Pens would pay him less than Letang's cap hit so they won't give Shattenkirk more than $7, assuming they are interested in him. One big factor as you say is what will Schultz's cap number be next season.
You rely too much on points. There's a ton more that goes into hockey than points - especially for a D-Man. I don't know if STL funnels through their D either. IE: How much of it is situational and can't be replicated. We need someone who is more well rounded and defencively sound. Shattenkirk is a borderline liability in his own end. His O game is elite, but between Schultz and Letang, we're decently covered there. Sure Letang gets hurt, but you don't plan for that with a 7,000,000 defenceman and I rather not let Schultz go who fits this system pretty darn well and is an ideal 2nd pair defenceman.

It's like the difference between a Neal and a Hornqvist. You can't create a team of just snipers, or offencive d-men, you need grinders and guys who can play a more defencive game.

If one of Letang or Shattenkirk or Schultz can play the offside (again my own lack of familiarity), it works better because if/when one of them goes down, it's a little shuffling, but otherwise is a problem.
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  #262  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mach View Post
Eh, even without Sprong, say he spends half a season in the AHL like Guentzel did, the wings are still loaded. I mean, you can take the cup lines:

Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary
Wilson-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-??-Hornqvist
Rowney-??-Rust

And still be set at the wings.


Well, they have made boneheaded decisions before... Cullen was a new contract though, Kunitz was at the end of his. But it does set a good precedent I think. It could be anywhere from 1,000,000 to 4,000,000 (likely close to the former). It's hard to say.


You rely too much on points. There's a ton more that goes into hockey than points - especially for a D-Man. I don't know if STL funnels through their D either. IE: How much of it is situational and can't be replicated. We need someone who is more well rounded and defencively sound. Shattenkirk is a borderline liability in his own end. His O game is elite, but between Schultz and Letang, we're decently covered there. Sure Letang gets hurt, but you don't plan for that with a 7,000,000 defenceman and I rather not let Schultz go who fits this system pretty darn well and is an ideal 2nd pair defenceman.

It's like the difference between a Neal and a Hornqvist. You can't create a team of just snipers, or offencive d-men, you need grinders and guys who can play a more defencive game.

If one of Letang or Shattenkirk or Schultz can play the offside (again my own lack of familiarity), it works better because if/when one of them goes down, it's a little shuffling, but otherwise is a problem.
I love it that you're a Pens fan. I agree with what you're saying. For me on my defensive pairings I like having one offensive defenseman. So those three would be Letang, Shattenkirk, and Schultz. This year we had Letang, Daley, and Schultz as offensive D-men. Top 3 lines would look like:

Maata-Letang
Dumoulin-Shattenkirk
Cole-Schultz

I don't yet know how much Schultz is going to be making to know whether or not he can be on the 3rd line. I do know that a powerplay unit of:

Malkin-Crosby-Kessel
Shattenkirk-Letang

Might be the greatest powerplay unit of all time.

Do you definitely think Dumoulin is ahead of Cole in the pecking order?
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  #263  
Old 06-12-2017, 10:23 PM
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As far as the Wings go, I'm seeing more and more eye-to-eye with you, we are pretty loaded at Wing. So now what we really need on offense is a 3rd line Center who is a faceoff ace. In my mind our options for a 3rd line Center are Bonino, Gagner, Hanzal, or Derek Ryan as a worst case scenario. I think I'd sign the best faceoff guy but if it's close go for Bonino to keep the group as intact as possible. I don't know if a guy like Gagner would even consider being a 3rd line Center next season.
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  #264  
Old 06-12-2017, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by IBleedBlackNGold View Post
I love it that you're a Pens fan.
It's nice to be able to talk hockey with someone. Living in California limits not only hockey talk, but also Pens talk. There's a forum called Hockey's Future I lurk at, but I've never been interested in joining.

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I agree with what you're saying. For me on my defensive pairings I like having one offensive defenseman. So those three would be Letang, Shattenkirk, and Schultz. This year we had Letang, Daley, and Schultz as offensive D-men. Top 3 lines would look like:

Maata-Letang
Dumoulin-Shattenkirk
Cole-Schultz
Generally that's the way to do it, though we rocked a Hall Gill-Rob Scuderi line in 2009 as a shutdown D line.

Quote:
I don't yet know how much Schultz is going to be making to know whether or not he can be on the 3rd line.
Well, most estimates have him between 4 and 5 million, which is Top 4 money. He probably also wants Top 4 playing time. The third unit doesn't get that much play. I'd say realistically it's either Schultz or Shattenkirk. I know I prefer Schultz.

Quote:
I do know that a powerplay unit of:

Malkin-Crosby-Kessel
Shattenkirk-Letang

Might be the greatest powerplay unit of all time.
Where's the net front presence? Someone has to play the Kunitz/Hornqvist role by getting right up in front of the goalie and screen/grab rebounds.

Our top unit is currently:

Hornqvist-Crosby-Kessel
Malkin-Letang with Guentzel picking up some of Hornqvist's time.


Quote:
Do you definitely think Dumoulin is ahead of Cole in the pecking order?
Dumoulin is arguably our top defencive Dman, especially with Maatta up and down. Cole is a 3rd pairing D-Man. It's not close.
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  #265  
Old 06-12-2017, 11:24 PM
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As far as the Wings go, I'm seeing more and more eye-to-eye with you, we are pretty loaded at Wing. So now what we really need on offense is a 3rd line Center who is a faceoff ace. In my mind our options for a 3rd line Center are Bonino, Gagner, Hanzal, or Derek Ryan as a worst case scenario. I think I'd sign the best faceoff guy but if it's close go for Bonino to keep the group as intact as possible. I don't know if a guy like Gagner would even consider being a 3rd line Center next season.
I love Hanzal's talent, but he has trouble staying healthy. I need to research the market. Ideally the 3C would be good at FO's AND either strong in the D zone, or good in the O zone. I'd prefer the former based on what we need.

I worry Bonino is going to want to get paid, like Stall got paid, and that can't, won't, and shouldn't happen here. He'd be the best option though.
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  #266  
Old 06-13-2017, 10:34 AM
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'Living in California'

I am narrowing down your location to harass you .
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  #267  
Old 06-13-2017, 12:21 PM
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'Living in California'

I am narrowing down your location to harass you .
The Bay. He's a Raiders fan. Also white, yeah... that kind of white that he looks at basketball like...

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  #268  
Old 06-13-2017, 02:22 PM
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I call it the Negro Ball Association, close enough.
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  #269  
Old 06-14-2017, 11:42 AM
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  #270  
Old 06-14-2017, 11:42 AM
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Heehee.
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